Superior price for inferior product!

Why in the world would anyone pay such a SUPERIOR price for an INFERIOR Crown College, BCTI, CRI education? I know why. It's because it's SOLD to you that way in the admissions office. Even though most states make it against regulations to pay recruiters and admissions employees bonuses or commissions for students they recruit, a lot of schools get around it by giving their reps several "raises" a year instead. And we can only assume many get paid "under the table." But make no mistake about it - it's ALL about the money - and they do get paid well. Unlike the teachers who get a pittance by comparison. They're like bands - they only love you when they're playing. And you, the unwitting student, are the band's audience - they love you when you're giving them your money.

The first person you meet when you visit a private vocational school is the admissions rep. You are his mark, just as surely as if he were the hunter and you were the hunted. He is a SALESMAN - pure and simple - schooled in the art of covering people with snake oil and making them them think it's holy water. They could tell you to go to hell and have you looking forward to the trip - because they have been TRAINED TO DO SO.

Look at the video of Mr. Wabel telling you your credits may not transfer from his school while pointing at his catalog. You get no guarantee even after paying all that EXTRA money!!! And I bet the fine print in his catalog still doesn't tell the whole truth - that being they very RARELY transfer anywhere.

I have an inkling that video obviously isn't often played for prospective students in the admissions office. No - it was a broadcast after Mr. Wabel was sued! Very telling.

Beware - if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck .......

A Crown College Admissions Rep Ate My Education!

This may happen to you because for-profit education admission representatives may have to eat your education so they can eat! This happened to numerous students who believed that their Crown College credits would transfer to regionally accredited schools aka real schools. Crown College, and many other non-profit school's like University of Phoenix and Career Education Corporation, admission representatives are not necessarily there to give you good advice, unless good advice happens to coincide with them getting you to enroll and make money for the school. Remember, these schools are businesses, just like car dealerships, insurance companies, pawn shops. If they can provide a good education AND make money, its all good, but if they can't, they would rather make money. Just make sure you remember that when an admission representative is telling you exactly what she or she thinks you want to hear. Adrienne Rocco, a former admissions representative at Crown College and told about how admissions representatives work in a declaration and a complaint to the ACCSCT.

At Crown College, a lot of students listened to the siren song of some admission representative and ended up wasting their time based on their lies. Things like the sound system is great, it wasn't, we have a fantastic curriculum, they don't, and the biggest one, our credits transfer, no problem. You could end up in the news!

Crown Charges $17k for a Non Transferable Associates Degree!!!

$17,000+ is a lot for the education Crown College will give you. Did you know you can go to a Community College in Washington, which is regionally accredited, they all are, and get an associates degree which you could transfer to another regionally accredited school like say University of Washington, a real school. And it will cost you a lot less! $3,600! Don't take my word for it. Read the table in this article.

Now, when you are funding your education with federal and state loans and grants, it probably doesn't seem like that much. I mean, when I went to school, the loan money was like monopoly money. The concept of paying it back, or even how hard or how long it would take to pay it back was not something I dwelled on. However, you will have to pay it back. The Department of Education may toss it around as if they are some kind of philanthropic axis of giving which Santa Claus heads but don't be fooled. They will hound you, garnish your wages, take your tax return out of your mail box and you cannot dismiss it in bankruptcy. The schools can go bankrupt, but not you. That is a lot of money to pay for a degree which is not transportable. In other words, you can't take the Crown Associates to most regional accredited schools and start on a Bachelor's degree or take the Bachelor's degree and start on a Master's Degree and you will have a hard time transferring the credits. It's only good for the field you get it on. Hmmm, what if there is no work in that field or you get tired of guarding prison inmates? Well tough, you gave up your flexibility when you ended up going to Crown College and getting a dead-end education.

Read this if you don't think these schools will lie to you!

This is a declaration from a former employee of Crown College. In it, this woman details how they mislead, deceived, and just plain lied to students, lied to their accreditation board, and lied to the Dept of Education. She filed a complaint with the ACCSCT also, Crown College's accreditor.

I am getting my education about how NOT to get an education. I wonder if anyone from the Department of Education even cares about the way they do business? I doubt it. They get their money back from the students so it's no skin off their noses if they are taken for a few million now and then.

http://www.crowncollegelawsuits.com/

Can someone please tell me if anyone who attended Crown College in Tacoma ever got a decent job in their field of study without starting over at another school?

Scam School?

You decide.

Why in the world would the operator of this Crown "College" have to point out that it's printed in his catalog that his credits may not transfer? Why isn't it printed on the contract in big bold letters? Or on the front door in big block letters? Simply because you might see it, that's why! Why call them "credits" when in effect, they are just like the little stickers we give our children for their charts when they brush their teeth and do their chores. Except they cost more!!! A lot more! This man is a businessman - not an educator. The operator of a corporation out to make a profit first and foremost.

I watched the video of John Wabel responding to the Black lawsuit on the crown college lies website. He comes across as a pedantic, self-righteous and arrogant little creep. My opinion - crooked as a dog's hind leg! Run for your life and hide your money. It feels like he's taking advantage of people who want to better themselves through education by selling them a bunch of lies - and getting paid for it through the federal student loan program.

If I didn't know better, I would say he could have run Business Career Training Institute (BCTI) or Court Reporting Institute (CRI) - two other scam schools in the Puget Sound area that received recent attention for cheating and lying to students. Join the club, Mr. Wabel. BCTI CRI, and CC (Crown College). Crooks College? One really must wonder.

Nationals' Transfer of Credit Problem

National accreditation is conferred on vocational, "career" and technical schools. Most of them are for-profits. Even if the offer degrees they are still, well, vocational, "career" and technical schools, let's say VCTs. They are over 50 national accrediting agencies which accredit such varied schools as landscape design, denture making, medical assistant and so on. Some of these agencies also accredit supposed academic schools, such as well Crown College. However, generally regionally accredited schools will not accept credits from nationally accredited schools. Here is an article that does a good job of summarizing regional vs. National Accreditation which is taken from the Education USA website.


You should also be aware that many U.S. institutions that hold regional accreditation do not recognize credits or degrees earned at other U.S. institutions that are nationally accredited. This will be important to you if you decide to transfer from one U.S. institution to another part way through a degree program, or if you plan to pursue degrees at different U.S. institutions; for example, a bachelor’s degree from one school and a master’s degree from another.

Another article on accreditation from Elearners.com:

Issues to Consider

When deciding which type of accreditation is right for you, there are several issues you may wish to consider.

The main issue is the transferability of credits from one institution to another. While nationally accredited institutions will usually accept credit from regionally or nationally accredited institutions, regionally accredited schools often do not accept credit from nationally accredited institutions.

This also means that if you hold an Associate's degree from a nationally accredited school, you may have to start over if you later decide to pursue a Bachelor's degree from a regionally accredited school. Similarly, if you hold a nationally accredited Bachelor's degree, you may not be eligible to enter a Master's program at some regionally accredited institutions. Considering that state colleges and universities are regionally accredited, and are an inexpensive local option for many students, this is definitely something to keep in mind.

Many regionals refuse to accept nationals' credits for transfer is because they claim they are inferior and they are. Regional accreditation is much more academically oriented and stringent. Nationals' accrediting standards are not as strict and they are more oriented to preparing people for careers or vocations, not providing a "well rounded education." Of course, nationals say that is not true and the fact that their accreditors are recognized by the Department of Education shows they are the equivalent. The Department of Education does not run any schools or even accrediting agencies! It simply decides what minimum requirements an accrediting agency must meet. Now of course national accredited schools will make a lot of supercilious arguments since they have a conflict of interest! It has something to do with .... the bottom line and it is hurt by the fact that the education is perceived as inferior when their credits don't transfer AND less students are going to be inclined to attend their schools if they can't transfer. Look at Crown College, when they were ordered to distribute a paper to each of their students explaining that their credits don't transfer, they just ignored it. It was better to risk the court's wrath that potentially lose students.

National's Legislative End Run Around Reality

As I have pointed out earlier, nationally accredited schools ("nationals") credits generally do not transfer to regionally accredited schools ("regionals") while regionals' credits almost always do. According to the ACCSCT only 18% of nationals' credits were accepted by regionals. Why is this, because regionals have much more rigorous accrediting standards than nationals do, and there are only six regional accreditors while there are numerous national accreditors. Regionally accreditors almost exclusively accredit academic oriented institutions. National accreditors accredit schools which teach denture making, landscape design, cosmetic and beauty, massage, acupuncture, schools just to name a few. So, nationals are generally offering, well selling, an academically inferior product. This has historically left them feeling, well a little bereft and more importantly, costs them money and affects their bottom line, and remember, most of them are for profit, bottom lines are important. Now, in a free market one would expect them to improve their product, i.e., apply for regional accreditation, nothing is stopping them, well outside of the that fact that would have to spend more money on faculty and facilities, thereby cutting into their ... bottom line. There goes that bottom line thing again. However, there is another way! Lobby! Have the federal government, more or less declare them to be equal. Think presidential signing statement. It's amusing how capitalists who love the free market versus regulation, can fall out of love with the free market very quickly when it fails to accomplish their goals. Fickle, huh. Profit can be. Imagine, the government telling one car dealership that they have to accept another dealer's cars for trade in without any discount. Rather anti-free market I should think. Well that is what the nationals are doing. Now of course they will tell you that they are being discriminated against. What they are doing is tantamount to:

That's like say I'm selling GEO's and my customers are upset because they cannot trade their GEOs in for BMWS. Now I could retool my factories to make GEOs, of course it would mean that I would have to spend a great deal of money and abandon my business model which is, hmmmm, well to make GEOs because they are cheaper to make oooorrrrrrrrrr I could just lobby the federal government to prohibit BMV dealers from not accepting my GEOs in trade for BMVs just because they are GEOs. In other words, they would have to evaluate each GEO, to make sure it is indeed inferior to a BMV. The basis and rationale for my request would be the proposition that since both GEOs and BMVs are cars, there is no reason for GEOs to be "discriminated" against by being valued less than BMV. Amusing, huh?

Yes, for some time now, for-profit colleges have been lobbying a friendly congress (well until 2006 at least) and administration to amend the Higher Education Act or promulgate regulations in order to stop the haughty regionals from rejecting credits from the nationals solely because they are, well, nationals. At this point I will cite the Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers most cogent argument explaining why here. If you can take the time you will have received a encapsulated argument against the nationals attempts to rewrite federal law in their favor. Caril Lynn Hennessy also makes a good argument against this legislative end run. Understanding all of this might take a little bit of history.

Coming back to the nationals big argument is that the Department of Education does not distinguish between national and regional accreditation when it comes to eligibility for federal educational grants and loans, the currency of higher education and of course what allows for profit education -- these students don't pay for the education, at least not initially, we the tax payer does --- hmmm, I sense another blog post. So if the Department of Education makes no distinction why should the accreditors? Hmmm, in other words a GEO and a BMV are both cars as far as the government is concerned so why should one be valued over the other . . . other than, well one is better than the other one.